Welcome to the Classic Gaming Board's "Game Club", where we play and discuss a game from the past every so often as a group. Modelled on book clubs, in this series of topics we choose a game, often focusing on the obscure or historically significant, that many of us just never got around to - whether out of laziness, lacking the system on which it was released, or just having never heard of it. New people are always welcome to join in, so if you're just looking for the first time, don't hesitate to play and partake in the discussion, and if you'd like to see older topics, they're available at a page I recently cobbled together, http://www.davidn.co.nr/gameclub/ . Monkey Island got a good response for the first attempt at this series, and as a bit of a change this time, we're jumping ahead ten whole years and doing a suggestion from DariusTriplet... Deus Ex Released: 2000 (PC), 2002 (PS2) Key Personnel: Warren Spector, Harvey Smith Currently available on: Steam (PC/Mac), PS2 Deus Ex is going to be a difficult game to write an introduction for, because even though so many people have said how good it is, my entire experience of it has been playing it for about five minutes on a friend's computer shortly after it was released. I know very little about it, except that apparently you put on a trenchcoat and fight some conspiracies/get experience and level up abilities, and furthermore that you can select from rifles or computers/just don't pick swimming 'cause it's fairly useless. But that's all second-hand information, obviously. To crib from Wikipedia, it's a first person not-quite-shooter that takes elements from role-playing games (though not in a Hexen II sort of way) and has a complicated storyline involving several secret societies, and a focus on allowing the player to choose what kind of tactics to use to progress in the game. And that's about all you'll get out of me, because I'm going to start playing it and collecting my thoughts tomorrow and I'm trying to keep my eyes well away from the "Plot" section of its entry. If you feel like participating, DariusTriplet mentioned at the end of the other topic - http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/204-classic-gaming/57981371 - that he might have a few Steam licences for the game left over. (Thanks go to him for my own copy!) If you're on Windows 7, the Cranky Hermit recommends this patch to clear up some graphics and improve widescreen support: http://kentie.net/article/d3d10drv/ --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
Just one further note - already I've had to do something I'd been familiar with from Unreal Tournament, which was to Ctrl+Alt+Del to the task manager while the game was running and set the DeusEx.exe process affinity to run on one CPU only, to prevent eccentric skipping. --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
I bought this during a recent Steam sale. I really honestly enjoyed how open-ended things got once you reached the Hell's Kitchen level, and you could do pretty much anything you wanted. However, I never really got past that point. It's ultimately too complex for me, having to decide what skills to upgrade, what items to carry/expend, who to talk to, what to say, what missions to accept... I can see how someone could get into it, but I need something more streamlined, personally. Also, JC Denton can't jump worth a crap. --- DOOM 3 - Winners Don't Use Duct Tape |
Did you use the D3D10 patch? It should take care of the processor affinity bug automatically. I'd be the first to comment on a re-playing, but I've got a KQ3 fan remake to play through.... after I farm for pure bladestone in Demon's Souls (yeah right). And then I've got to actually do something with the feedback I got in the Super Metroid thread. And... yeah. But I'll be replaying Deus Ex eventually. --- http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/ Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more! |
However, I never really got past that point. It's ultimately too complex for me, having to decide what skills to upgrade, what items to carry/expend, who to talk to, what to say, what missions to accept... I can see how someone could get into it, but I need something more streamlined, personally. Streamline it for yourself. There's no need to worry about minmaxing your character - upgrade the skills that you like using. Carry items that are augmented by the skills you prefer. Accept the missions you think you are capable of completing (and that you *want* to complete - skip the missions where you sacrifice kittens on the altar of Bhaal unless that's your kind of thing). It's a very deep game, but it's only as complex as you make it out to be. --- http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/ Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more! |
Megamur - Really, don't worry about it too much. There aren't any critical skills and the game doesn't punish certain builds. If you want to focus on just using rifles then simply focus on that skill, maybe pick up hacking on the side. The augmentations present some difficult binary choices, but choose the one that sounds more useful or fun to play. The game lends itself to overthinking but don't get too concerned - you can play through, have an excellent experience, and leave a lot to explore for the inevitable second time. Yeah JC doesn't jump well but if you get the speed augmentation and upgrade it he gets some major air. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
I sympathize with Megamur as there are a few games in my past that are supposedly okay if not great but felt like I had to make rather important decisions "blind" early on, the end result being a bit of paralysis on my end and the eventual dropping of said game. Hopefully that won't happen here as when given stealth as an option I usually go hard in that direction. I got the D3D10 patch up and loaded, I just now have to find the time to actually play the game. --- bah weep grah nah weep ni ni bon? up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start. |
From: Master Yogurt | #006 You can jump out of the map in Area 51. As for me, I've played this game far too much. I've finished it more than 10 times and I know nearly every little thing in the maps, except for Hong Kong. I'm going to pass this one, but I will probably comment. About the skills, the game isn't perfectly balanced, in the late game using stealth is really hard, if not almost impossible in some parts. Thankfully, there are only 2 of these. --- (\(\ ~ Hardcore - We'll probably be modded for this... (='.') ~ http://internetometer.com/give/5853 Gimme an internet? |
When I first played the game, I went for a stealthier build--and yeah, there are some difficult areas with that. I'm tempted to do a heavy-weapons playthrough, but the appeal of stealth is still super-strong. I wonder if I could kind of do a MacGyver sort of thing. Now to see if I still have the game somewhere; I may have to hit Darius up for a copy on Steam. --- stop picking on balloon fight. - kuddy53 PSN: Cinder6 | My backlog: http://backloggery.com/cinder6 |
I think I used to have a disc for this, but it's long gone by now. If Darius still has a license, I might talk to him about it. Otherwise I'll do some scouting and see where it's available. --- ~NC http://rainwave.cc - Video Game Radio http://backloggery.com/naturalchemical/ |
I found out the hard way that a heavy weapons build doesn't really work in this game. Devs should learn to mark secondary skills appropriately, eh? BTW, DX tends to be very controversial in places where "C&C" is discussed on a regular basis. The point of contention is whether all these choices you're allowed to make really matter in the end since the railroaded story makes payoff incidental. --- . . |
I've played through Deus Ex quite a few times since a friend gave me a copy back around its' release date. I split about 50/50 between playing on Easy and playing on Realistic. My last playthrough was approximately 4 months ago. I never play unmodded anymore; I use Shifter, which updates a lot of stuff. There's a significant amount of bug fixes, new content, and restored content. Examples: * You can use augmentation cannisters to upgrade installed augs of the same type. * New/updated augmentations (Example: Microfibral Muscle now has the Combat Strength effect as well, and Combat Strength is now Electrostatic Discharge, which causes melee hits to do EMP damage.) * Skill points for kills and/or stealth. * There is a conversation between Tracer Tong and Lebedev in the helibase terminal below LaGuardia that was cut from the game; Shifter restores it. * Unique weapons. * New ammo types. * Random Inventory for NPCs. If interested, see http://code.google.com/p/shifterdx/ or http://www.moddb.com/mods/shifter1 I would also like to recommend The Nameless Mod, a free full game running on the Deus Ex engine. http://www.thenamelessmod.com --- "Imaginary physics is a perfectly legitimate field of inquiry!" --Vikram, Atomic Robo: Pest Control |
Actually Heavy Weapons IS viable mid-late game. Once your skill is high enough the flamethrower kills almost instantly, at least on Realistic. It actually is so effective that it becomes a stealth weapon - there's no sound to alert other guards and the people die well before their screaming alerts others or they make it to an intercom. The main problem with Heavy is that you get about three rockets total for like the first five levels and you really need a few levels of the skill to make them remotely effective. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
I own this but never got around to playing it much. Might give it another try today. Which of the three Items your bro offers you is the best to pick at the beginning? Can I suggest some games to do later on? |
Please feel free to suggest future things - I'll add them to the list on http://www.davidn.co.nr/gameclub as they're mentioned in the topic. I started the game up for the first time last night, after a bit of setup - I had thought that Steam-distributed games would have had a bit more done to them for modern PCs than just leave you to work out how to fix them up yourself (I haven't installed the Direct3D 10 patch because I'm still on Windows XP). But after changing some video and colour settings around, I jumped in and was redirected to the tutorial. After spending some time chucking pot plants about, my initial impression is that it's much more complex than I had expected, having to be aware of your character's abilities in a very RPG-like format, rather than simple relying on the player's own reflexes - even for things as first-person-shootery as aiming a weapon, you're going to have difficulty hitting anything instantly. The tutorial explains how these things work, but looking around the menus presents a fairly overwhelming array of statistics that are going to become important later. I'll see how that goes! Graphically, it felt oddly plain and boxy (though this might well just have been the design of the tutorial). I remember when I used to make maps for Unreal Tournament I felt I had this problem and that the default maps neatly avoided it, so it's not just because of its age. The Unreal-ness of the engine is very apparent, both in terms of the dynamic lighting and the fragments from the breakable objects - these are both things that also look a bit uncomfortable to me, but this might just be due to the way that torches and breakables always seemed downplayed in UT anyway (appearing in no default maps but still available through the editor). As far as gameplay goes, I considered it an achievement of some note that I managed to blow both my own legs off during the tutorial, when returning to an explosive charge trying to pick it up, but the medical robots saw me through to the end. The last room seemed a nice demonstration of how the game isn't going to tell you exactly what to do at every step of the way, and I experimented for a while here, picking things up, exploding them or taunting the robot. Following Metal Gear Solid's advice, I looked to the many useful properties of the cardboard box, thinking that game physics were and always have been unrealistic enough for me to throw them into the river and simply hop across them like stepping stones, rather than creating the soggy sort of mess that would normally result - and I was quite correct, though I later reloaded to do it the "proper" way and find the code that lowered the bridge. You definitely feel rather less mobile at this point than in most FPS games, though, and the stealth section gave me slight feelings of trepidation. This is another thing we have MGS to thank for... after it was released, stealth sections came right into fashion whether a particular game's setting or engine was good at doing them or not. I'm taking from other comments here that it does at least work here... --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
I sympathize with Megamur as there are a few games in my past that are supposedly okay if not great but felt like I had to make rather important decisions "blind" early on, the end result being a bit of paralysis on my end and the eventual dropping of said game. Agreed, as I'm hitting this sort of plateau a lot in Etrian Odyssey III at the moment. Anyways, I've yet to play Deus Ex even after owning it on Steam for some time (hurrah for $1 Steam sales). I fully plan on playing through it for this topic, but I do want to play through Monkey Island first, just out of principle. Personal stuff came up during that game, as well as a lot of time constraints for me. With that in mind, I might be starting Deus Ex later in the week, once I have some other projects wrapped up as well as Monkey Island. --- Shelfari - http://www.shelfari.com/o1514380917 Backloggery - http://backloggery.com/ilario7886 |
From: v0m12 | #014 GEP gun. You can find the two other weapons in the first level, the sniper with a NSF guy patrolling alongside the base of the statue and the crossbow with... A thug at the north dock, if I'm not mistaken. --- (\(\ ~ Hardcore - We'll probably be modded for this... (='.') ~ http://internetometer.com/give/5853 Gimme an internet? |
Ok cool, I suggest: Master of Orion 2 Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition Gabriel Knight: Sins of the father Baldur's Gate |
Started my replay. I'm using the Shifter mod myself actually. I never got around to playing through with it before, and the updates seem non-intrusive enough to be worthwhile. The pepper spray is actually effective now - maybe even too effective. Whaddya know? And the crowbar is now strong enough to break crates without two swings or any points in low-tech. Sweet. Not sure I'm a fan of the whole "getting skill points for kills or stealth" thing, which is neat, but it seems rather unbalancing. I never cared in my playthroughs about the lack of SP for kills. Ultimately it doesn't matter too much - if I get an extra skill level or two so be it - but that's a pretty significant change. For first weapon choice: The GEP gun is the only logical choice because the others are available in the level itself. That being said, losing six inventory slots to that behemoth is painful, and I always wrestle with whether it's worth keeping or not. It doesn't look as bad overall as I recall - I checked out the training level and it's definitely uglier than the rest of the game - but for some reason my copy wouldn't retain my "32 bit color" choice. I edited the INI file and it's all good now. If anyone wants any minor character build advice, I highly recommend both one level of computers (for basic ATM and security system hacking) and one level of demolitions (which makes the proximity mines a lot easier.) Not that I want to tell you how to play your character, but having a basic proficiency in these skills is a real asset (especially the former). --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
With Shifter, I always put points into Computers, Lockpicking, and Electronics at the outset, then save to max out Rifles so I can one-shot MJ12 Commandos and cameras/turrets with the Sniper Rifle; the skill point bonuses mean you can do that by Mission 5 (MJ12 facility under UNATCO) if you min/max your bonuses. (Killing everyone with headshots, etc.) --- "Wonder Bread eaten by a conservative congressman in the middle of a snowstorm isn't this white!" --Nostalgia Critic, On Vanilla Ice rapping |
My way of thinking for my starting abilities was to get the things that actually seemed like they enabled things, rather than enhanced them - most importantly the computers one, as Master Yogurt mentioned, rather than the ones that promised just to increase accuracy a tiny bit. I'm still finding it slightly awkward going - I think that I set out expecting it to be a lot more like Unreal than it actually is, and putting this new gameplay feel on to an engine that seems so familiar to me sort of confuses my mind a bit. --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
I just finished the Liberty Island part and I have way to much stuff in my inventory, I have a Gep gun, sawed off Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, Dart gun, pistol. stealth pistol, a baton, a knife, some grenades, Food, and all sorts of other junk. What stuff do I need to drop? |
Food is useless. Melee weapon depends on if you want to go lethal or nonlethal. Lethal, go with the knife. Nonlethal, go with the baton. Definitely keep the minicrossbow; one hit with a tranq dart and most anybody will eventually go down. The regular pistol has higher damage per shot than the stealth pistol, but has a smaller clip and can't be silenced. Matter of personal preference. Sawed-off Shotgun has better damage per shot than the automatic Assault Shotgun you can find later. If you want a shotgun, the Sawed-off is your best bet. At Master Rifles, the sniper rifle can destroy cameras and turrets, and one-headshot-kill MJ12 Commandos. Definitely worth it. For grenades, hang on to LAMs and EMP Grenades. Gas and Scramble aren't as useful. The GEP gun isn't as useful once you get 20mm High Explosive ammo for the Assault Rifle. --- ''rule 34 shouldn't surprise anyone anymore because it stopped being a true comment on the depravity of the pornosphere a long time ago.'' --michaelbolton |
I'm somewhere in the second mission just now, and I think I'm warming up a bit to the game after a rocky start. I have to keep reminding myself not to expect it to work like the Unreal games... other than those, it actually most reminds me of Syphon Filter, with the levels comprised of multiple main and secondary objectives that are changed or added to as the mission goes on. It also helps that the characters in the game appear to use the same 'hurt' sounds as Gabriel Logan, along with his extraordinarily bored voice acting - terrorists alerting each other to your presence with a cry of "It's a cop - get him!" say it with the same inflection as one might expect from "That's a nice pencil sharpener". I went for a stealthy approach to the first level, which worked but rapidly made the game feel a little tatty sometimes - a large portion of most guards' patrols involves them staring intently at walls, even when they think they've found you and are coming to hunt you down. After blankly standing for a while, they then suffer the same chronic short-term memory loss as in MGS and continue as if nothing had happened. When you have to get into combat, it doesn't feel quite right either - there are a couple of incidents I've come up against where I felt things just became uncomfortably weird. After weaving past the security and guards I eventually found my way to the heart of the statue building on the first level, and discovered a terrorist sitting with his back to me, at a desk facing the controls for the door and camera. I accidentally set off the alarm, and he still chose to just sit there motionless. I thought I had no choice but to take him out, so I pulled out the sniper rifle and gave a single, neat shot to the back of his head - whereupon he healthily got up and started shooting back. He ran away to get the others, then they all came back in one by one and stood about a bit. The second level finally looked like I was headed for some real action, but after using my rifle for the couple of people who came out I strode into the centre of the monument and found that most of the terrorists had not been alerted by the sound of gunfire or shouting, and were still happily wandering around and staring off into space. And in the underground base shortly afterwards, I tried the stealthy approach for a moment, but one of the guards was too quick and ran away from me. I took off after him, and after picking up another guard on the way, it led to a Benny Hill chase through the entire linear structure of the base, ending with the pair of them madly running in place halfway up a flight of stairs against a closed trapdoor from where they could be picked off easily. Even in modern games, artificial intelligence for these situations isn't exactly an easy thing to do and there are always these little constant reminders that you're just playing a game - perhaps it's easy to forget that the game's ten years old now, but I wasn't really feeling as drawn into it as I had expected. However, it all changed when I entered Pauls' hotel room via the fire escape outside - after collecting the goodies, I wasn't sure if I could leave the conventional route without alerting anyone. When wandering around aimlessly, I accidentally fired the assault rifle, which made the terrorist outside panic so much that he ran straight through the door towards me, forgetting to open it first and bursting into the room in a hail of cartoonish splinters. That was the moment when the AI started becoming really entertaining instead of just irritating. --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
The AI is kind of weird like that. Irritatingly, they can also open locked doors as if they were not locked; that got me killed in The Nameless Mod recently because I forgot about it. --- Heinrich von Helsignard: "Are we not men of science?" Atomic Robo: "I'm a robot and you're a brain in a jar. Is this a trick question?" |
I think the game can be hard to get used to. When I first played it, I absolutely hated it. Once I got past the first level, though, things got better, and by the time I hit Hong Kong, I was absolutely loving it. --- stop picking on balloon fight. - kuddy53 PSN: Cinder6 | My backlog: http://backloggery.com/cinder6 |
What's really drawing me in just now is the story told through the news bulletins and emails that you find lying around. Especially for a pre-2001 game, the scaremongering tone of some of the terrorism-related emails is remarkably prophetic - I was made quite uncomfortable (as they surely meant to happen) by how much of the "This is what a terrorist might look like" list that I personally match. I was a bit lost as to what was useful to keep in my inventory as well, so I'm glad for that list of recommendations - early on in the second mission I agonized for a while over what to drop to make way for an eight-space behemoth of a flamethrower, only to find that its fuel was exhausted after one miserable puff. But I'll look out for them again later in the game... --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
Gas grenades not useful? I respectfully disagree. A gas grenade and the prod can take out four enemies in seconds, as long as you don't mind taking some damage yourself. That's one thing you didn't mention - don't you DARE give up that prod. Even without any low-tech that thing's a beast. The baton's GREAT for getting you killed. The prod incapacitates or knocks out instantly, while the baton usually just makes them turn around and fire a shotgun straight into your chest. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, you're right, the Gas Grenades are a good idea. I haven't played DX in a while. And yeah, keep the Riot Prod. Always make sure to hit from behind with it, to maximize the chances of a one-hit knockout. --- "The most fascinating thing is, I've seen [gotta scratch] dole out advice on women. It's like Bud Dwyer giving out handgun safety advice." --Coolhand |
I have taken a major step forward and have completed the dreaded... tutorial! That's right, I'm a bad man. ...This is going to be very hard for me. You know how keyboard and mouse is superior for these sorts of games? Yeah, not so much if you have very little experience with them. I've played a few levels of various PC FPSs over the past 15 years or so but that's about it. I can handle mouselook and WASD okayish but I have little idea how to use the other relevant buttons without looking down and switching my fingers all over. I may look into remapping some buttons, crouch in particular, to come up with some layout that would probably seem nightmarish to most of you but might work for me. Other than that, the tutorial was nice I thought. Next time, level 1 and beyond~ --- bah weep grah nah weep ni ni bon? up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start. |
Yeah I was actually going to mention that in my final write-up, but since justin brought it up, I may as well mention it now. Deus Ex has a strange control setup. The keyboard seems laid out for two hands, not for one. I'm not certain why catering to those who wouldn't use a mouse was important in 2001, years after Quake brought mouse+keyboard to the fore, but who knows. I have the current mappings changed: Crouch: Alt Reload: R Toggle Scope: F Change Ammo: H F12 (Light) V Activate Inventory Screen: Y I'll move other mappings down as I gain mods. This is the same thing I did for Jedi Outcast, thinking about it. By default force power are on the F buttons - which is really a reach when you need things right away. One nice thing about this game is that they were kind enough to tell you what key you just moved - so you know that by mapping y to 'inventory' you took it from 'send team message.' I've seen plenty of games utterly fail to do this, making remapping a game of memory. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
And yeah, keep the Riot Prod. Always make sure to hit from behind with it, to maximize the chances of a one-hit knockout. Good thing I have a save before I went on the boat. Heh, now I just have find where I dropped it. I have found loads of interesting uses for the GEP Gun so far that don't involve killing. I've been using it to blow up locked doors, turrets, and cameras, saving me my tools. I even discovered that the vending machine with the secret entrance behind it can be blown up saving me a multitool (or a candybar) and a lockpick. I plan to ditch it when I run out of rockets. |
LAMs are also useful for blasting objects. Plant a LAM near whatever needs opening, step back, and put a bullet into it. It's inelegant, but gets the job done, and LAMs are more common than GEP rounds/20mm grenades (although I'm partial to "Manna from Heaven") I don't think I can participate in this round, sadly - I'm extremely busy with school, and Deus Ex is too big to get into right now. I've played through the game plenty of times in the past, so I'm familiar enough that I don't mind sitting this one out; I'm moreso interested in the first-timers' thoughts than dealing with Juan Lebedev for the millionth time. --- Official GameFAQs Gunther Hermann Fanboy "No. I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime" |
The GEP Gun also has the White-Phosphorus (incendiary) rockets, which are extremely useful against clustered human enemies. I'm not sure, but I think you can find some during the Smuggler's side mission in Hell's Kitchen during Mission 2. --- "[Kaizo Mario World] is the video game version of cutting yourself." --Proton Jon |
I couldn't find my stun prod (I only looked for about 5 minutes) so I decided to go to the next area. I managed to get past the section without killing anyone. I'm now in Hells Kitchen and I'm about to do the main objective (Just finished all of the side quests), I finely dropped my GEP gun and replaced in with an assault rifle and I found a new stun prod. I found a LAW but it was to big for my inventory, is it any good? |
The LAW can one hit most bots, but it's a single shot, and you generally find them around where they'll be useful. Judging by where you are, you found the one in the "sewers", right? You can safely leave that one alone. --- "[Cardcaptor Sakura] is like a love tetrahedron circumscribed in a dekagon." --Duskmon |
Please feel free to suggest future things - I'll add them to the list on http://www.davidn.co.nr/gameclub as they're mentioned in the topic. How about Cave Story? --- <><><><> |
Im at the airport now and getting killed a lot (Stupid robots). I tossed my assault rifle (Its useless to me right now) and picked up another GEP gun. I like the fact that in this game you can get to the next locations in different ways like getting to the airport from the helipad, you can choose to use the elevator and you end up between two security robots or you can swim through the underground and end up near the docks of the airport. |
Daah. I might be one of the few DeX-virgins out there; I never played the game outside of the demo during my I've-got-to-get-back-to-Quake-CTF phase. (And as an aside, how does the combat of Master of Orion 2 work? I beat the game once, but kept auto-combat on to speed things along.) --- I am not the FOT! ~~the Zoq, the Fot & the Pik~~ |
Its turn based. This vid kinda shows how it is but its on auto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8En9gkCgGY |
My opinion of this game is shooting up and down really quickly as I go through it - and I think I'm being fairly slow compared to a couple of others. On the one hand, I find the whole gameplay and presentation really awkward - I can't get away from feeling a bit cheated in that unlike any other first person game, your shots probably won't hit where you're aiming because your pistol ability isn't high enough to allow them to. On the other, I'm interested in the unfolding story, and the way that it's told, apparently giving the player a lot of choices as to where and how they get their information. Of course, it's difficult to tell how genuine these choices are without multiple plays through. The amount of things available for you to do is impressive - I can see why Hell's Kitchen felt overwhelming, because I found myself going on multiple knock-on side quests before eventually remembering that there was a warehouse that I was supposed to be getting to. I also spent far too much time distracted by trying futilely to throw a basketball through a nearby hoop (again hampered by the random offset on each throw), being told "Sign him up for the Knicks!" every time I had a near miss. I have no idea if this is a comment on their reputed ability, but I suspect it might be quite funny if you're American. It's also nice that later events take account of what you did, getting bonuses for good handling of situations - though it does get these wrong occasionally as well, with JC bragging to the weapons man about how many half-deaf terrorists he'd slaughtered in the second level, when I had actually left Navarre to do most of the work and cowered behind a box instead. The frustration at trying to hit anything leads me to try to concentrate on more stealthy approaches, though this caused me to die in the most comically stupid way possible in the remarkably large sewers - I was walking slowly up behind a guard in the round room, ready to jab him with the prod, when I fell down the tiny gap between the floor and the walkway, plummeted about six feet and died. I hadn't saved for a while, so I quit in a huff, but I eventually went back to it, got to the warehouse, blew up the reactor (guard reaction: "Did you hear something?"), and watched as Gunther came in and confidently flamethrowered all the guards that had been giving me so much trouble. It's certainly difficult not to like him. I'll put Cave Story on the list, too, because everyone should play that. All I'm concerned about is how many people already have! --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
On the one hand, I find the whole gameplay and presentation really awkward - I can't get away from feeling a bit cheated in that unlike any other first person game, your shots probably won't hit where you're aiming because your pistol ability isn't high enough to allow them to. That's a huge part of what makes Deus Ex so special. You have to pick some combination of being good with pistols, or good with rifles, or good at lockpicking, or good at swimming, but you can't be an expert at everything, and the game is carefully designed so you don't have to be. If you're not good with a pistol, using one should be awkward. The sequel did away with the skills system, and EVERYONE who had played the original felt cheated massively - Deus Ex had become just "any other FPS." That said, if you have any points in pistols at all, your accuracy goes way up when you stand still. Even more if you crouch. And if you keep the crosshairs on top of a target for a few seconds (pretty much only practical if you are going for a stealth kill), you'll see them condense, indicating your shot will be even more accurate. And installing a laser pointer is practically cheating. Conversely, arm injuries mess up your aim. Also, the mini-crossbow is surprisingly accurate, even while moving. Also, I've played Cave Story already, and didn't find it to have much replay value. Though I also think Super Metroid's replay value is overstated (Sequence breaking is about as interesting to me as counting to ten in the wrong order). --- http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/ Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more! |
Just managed to track a copy of the PS2 version today- I much prefer playing just about any sort of game on a console if at all possible, and from a bit of research it doesn't seem like I'd be missing much by playing it on a console. I've never really gotten into an FPS, period- the perspective is really disorienting to me. So, after spending an hour in the tutorial (half an hour in the sneaking section trying and failing), I dived into the game on easy and decided to put points into short-range, melee, and pistol (that way I can hopefully just charge in and shoot stuff.) Picked the heavy weapon at the beginning, and now I've made it to the dock (mostly using a knife and pistol.) Haven't actually gotten onto the dock, thinking I might have missed something somewhere and still searching around. Oh, and have I screwed myself over by killing the allied soldiers in the first area to take their stuff? It's rather easy to get behind them and stab them. --- "On the Internet, you can make up quotes and attribute them to anyone you want!" - Thomas Edison |
Combat becomes much funner once you get a gun skill to at least level 3. I now have a 3 in rifles and I'm having a blast. I'm about to go to Hong Kong and the story is getting pretty intense. I don't want to talk about it yet, I dont want to spoil anything. |
Oh, and have I screwed myself over by killing the allied soldiers in the first area to take their stuff? It's rather easy to get behind them and stab them. Important characters are invincible in Deus Ex, so you don't have to worry about the wrong person dying. At the end of this session, I'll link to a particularly (in)famous anti-walkthrough of Deus Ex. I'd rather not do it now, since it's spoiler-heavy, but it involves such mischief as using Paul as an invulnerable superweapon to clean out Liberty Island and locking high-ranking government officials in broom closets. --- Official GameFAQs Gunther Hermann Fanboy "No. I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime" |
Just managed to track a copy of the PS2 version today- I much prefer playing just about any sort of game on a console if at all possible, and from a bit of research it doesn't seem like I'd be missing much by playing it on a console. You are missing a lot by playing the PS2 version. You would be infinitely better off connecting a lightweight PC to your TV, pretending it's a console, and playing it with a 360 controller and a wireless mouse for navigating menus. The biggest fault is that the levels have been chopped up to pieces in order to accommodate PS2 memory limitations, and this really hurts the game. For instance, the first mission is one large map that has no set route to the end. In the PS2 version it's broken up into four interconnected minimaps with load zones between each of them, and the sense of freedom is mostly lost. --- http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/ Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more! |
Yes, that's one thing that I like about the game - you can't be good at everything. I know it's a bit frustrating to not have perfect accuracy, but it makes infinitely more sense than simply doing less damage in similar genre types. They also managed to find a good balance between each skill level not being strictly necessary, with a basic functionality in all skills, and each skill level actually making a major difference. Every time a skill is increased you can really feel the improvement. I've played plenty of games where it doesn't feel like you've improved until you've made a huge investment (Fallout 3 for instance), and it's frustrating and discouraging. And, yes, level 4 skills are pretty godlike - but they're a big investment and take a long time to achieve, and definitely sacrifice. Make sure you' haven't sustained huge arm injuries, either. They make a big difference in accuracy, especially how effectively you can line up shots. Shoot from crouching if possible, as well. I've noticed several weird things with Shifter. I tend to get absurd amounts of ammunition, mainly, finding 500 or more assault rifle bullets on bodies, etc. I never really had ammo issues while playing before, since I tend to prod when it's easy, but this is definitely something I wouldn't recommend to first-time players. You never have enough sniper rounds, though. And Shifter doesn't change that. The increased crowbar damage is welcome but probably overpowered. I went with the electrostatic discharge power they added instead of increased strength - though strength is incredibly useful - but I'm not convinced that smashing bots with a crowbar is exactly a good idea. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
Man, I unfortunately think that I'm gonna have to drop out of this before I even get started. I put 30 hours as the longest playthrough time in my head but it seems that is fairly typical for a first playthrough with the bare minimum being 20ish hours. I'm not saying it is impossible for me to finish a game of that length in a reasonable amount of time but... it's not happening. I still got a bunch of stuff to do in the primary game I'm playing and the half hour to hour I could spare on the game a few times a week doesn't seem like it'd add up to much by the time this is done. Also in complete honesty a potentially 30 hour non-open world/action-adventure game sounds too long for my tastes anyways. I thought about Cave Story before but I think the vast majority have played the game by now. I was gonna suggest La Mulana as I always intended to give it a shot but I have similar concerns. --- bah weep grah nah weep ni ni bon? up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start. |
From: justin delible | #048 Yeah, I don't know about you, but I spent as much time in La Mulana as I did in Deus Ex, and 60% of that was spent dying. It's not a game for everyone. --- (\(\ ~ Hardcore - We'll probably be modded for this... (='.') ~ http://internetometer.com/give/5853 Gimme an internet? |
La Mulana: the winner is the last one to drop out. LOL My first playthrough of Deus Ex was around the same time as Final Fantasy XII, which I had expected to be my 'main' game to focus on that month, but after getting into Deus Ex I couldn't put it down and FFXII got sidelined. Deus Ex probably doesn't lend itself to more fragmentary playing sessions very well, which is part of the reason I'm not playing it a second time for this topic, unfortunately. |
I loved Cave Story. I played it once on the PC and am 3/4ths of the way through on the Wii. I'm not going to play it again. La Mulana? I enjoyed my time with it but wouldn't inflict it upon others, and I didn't get very far (actually at ALL far) myself. If we're going to go the indie free route I'd recommend Trilby: The Art of Theft as one that's actually completable but not over-done. I never hear it talked about, at the very least. I'm not saying it's the greatest game of all time (or even positing it as a true suggestion) but it's probably new to a lot of people here, at least. Edit: Still drunk off the power of editing, it's been brought to my attention that we can now... PRIVATE MESSAGE. Oh yes. That's right. Private. Messaging. *head explodes* --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
I thought La Mulana would be interesting in that it is supposedly very willing to let the player be lost without telling them much of anything, hence a community playthrough with people pooling knowledge and discoveries could potentially be neat. That said if most have already given it a shot or it is just ridiculously hard on top of that then it wouldn't quite work all that well. --- bah weep grah nah weep ni ni bon? up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start. |
La Mulana: the winner is the last one to drop out. You mean the first one. After that, everyone else is just a glutton for punishment. Also, for PMs to work, we have to be friends. ... YOU MEAN I HAVE TO START MAKING FRIENDS ON THE INTERNET?! --- I am not the FOT! ~~the Zoq, the Fot & the Pik~~ |
The Hong Kong Market is big, I've been there for like an hour exploring, I have no idea what Im supposed to be doing. Just a heads up for anyone new to this game, The guards in this area will attack you if you do anything illegal. I found that out the hard way (Broke a window). What are playing after Dues Ex. |
Hong Kong is almost overwhelmingly large (I know of several areas that serve absolutely no purpose and don't really hide any great secrets) but it's when the game really starts hitting its high notes. I suppose you just have to play it until you figure out what's going on there - but maybe that's what makes it so darn good. I'm away from my desktop all weekend so I won't be able to make any progress until Monday. And I left off right before boarding the copter to Hong Kong, too, so I'm disappointed that I won't be able to participate in this further for a while. I actually like your logic behind picking La Mulana, justin. I hadn't thought of it that way, and that actually could be pretty fun. I think I stumbled my way into the egyptian themed part once? That's how far I got at any rate; I don't know how much of it anyone's played. And if people think it wouldn't be fun (I do think that'd be fun in a difficult way) we might not have a great participation rate. Would there be any interest in playing the Commander Keen games? The collection is on Steam so we could do CK1 and CK 4 (both are pretty short.) I've loved these games since my childhood and feel like they're a bit underplayed, but perhaps, again, they're merely underdiscussed here. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
I can concede to the point that the aim offset and taking account of your abilities makes the game what it is - it's more an... observation of it going against the expectations that I've built up through other games in this perspective. I've got into the habit of standing still/crouching and waiting while firing, though I have tended to let my health deteriorate without noticing, or fixing things until there are real emergencies... that could be a lot to do with it. And I do have a mini-crossbow, though I haven't tried that yet either... (I'd also be interested in how successful Y0u's tactics of going in with all guns blazing were, if the skill points were there for it.) I've got up to the second section of the airport now, with the baby Daleks roaming around - they seem much more alert than the human guards in many ways, so it's a new experience trying to sneak past them. Another thing that I'd meant to comment on was the game's interesting way of sort of half-giving you a map - not an instant top-down omniscient sense of where you are and where everything else is, but through satellite images, giving you enough of an idea to let you work out a rough position and route for yourself. I missed having a full map at first, but I grew used to the idea fairly quickly. I like a lot of the suggestions so far for future games, though I still feel like I've barely started this round! The suggestion of a community effort at La Mulana sounds good to me, because it's something that I always meant to play, as well - though after Deus Ex, I want to aim for something that would take a much shorter time. One of the shareware Commander Keen episodes would certainly work for that, if enough people haven't played them - or I'd like people to see Within a Deep Forest, as well. --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
So I'm at the computer terminal near the turret and the locked door in the first area. Apparently, I was stupid enough to save right in front of it with 24 health and the turret shooting at me. (This is what saving and quitting quickly has a way of doing to you.) I just hit the button to log onto the computer and turn off the turret as the death animation was playing. Now, I'm walking around with no access to my weapons and items, -1 health, and the death music is playing. I have to say, this is a good laugh. ...or it WAS, until I realized that NONE of the buttons at all work except for turning and moving. Restarting now! --- "On the Internet, you can make up quotes and attribute them to anyone you want!" - Thomas Edison |
I'm back in New York at the navel base. This game has suddonly gotter much harder, dealing with the big robots without good equipment is a pain. Here are my stats so far: Rifles - 3 Computers - 3 Pistels - 2 Electronics - 2 Lockpick - 2 Simple Weapons - 2 Explosives - 2 Everything else - 1 |
Assault shotgun loaded with sabot rounds can be very effective against smaller robots. And of course, finding computer terminals will make stealth a LOT easier. --- http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/ Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more! |
Make sure you' haven't sustained huge arm injuries, either. They make a big difference in accuracy, especially how effectively you can line up shots. Shoot from crouching if possible, as well. I've seen this mentioned everywhere but I've never personally experienced negative effects from having broken arms. What exactly happens to accuracy when one's arms are damaged? Does the crosshair stay expanded for longer, do bullets fire outside of the crosshair radius, etc.? --- I SPEEL MY DRINK! "Personally, I've been using toilets for about 17 years now and I have no complaints." ~TormentedSoul25 |
I think general accuracy drops, and you can't aim as precisely - the crosshairs won't close all the way. I'm sure this depends on skill as well. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
I first played Deus Ex right after playing System Shock 1, so an FP/RPG in which stats mattered a whole freaking lot was nothing new to me. I found it INCREDIBLE. The story was very good and the writing to. But i have one big complain. I felt NOTHING with the story, and even less with the characters. Every feeling the game gave me came from the gameplay. The cutscenes were bland, the camera angles were horrible, the dialogue was cringe worthy (o noez jc, a bomb!) and the voice acting was atrocious. I would have prefered a mute game. Or a game that had cutscenes that relied completely on being narrated through the dialogue like Planescape Torment. I felt incredibly detached. I love the game, but's it's more of a logical and cold love in an "it's an incredible achievement in game design and incredibly fun to play" kind of way. ATM i'm kind of occupied with X-Com though so i'll sit this one out. --- me, me, me....and you you you you.....god only knows it's not what we would choose. |
I'm a little further behind than v0m12, but my skills have been distributed quite evenly: Computers - 2 Electronics - 2 Environmental Training - 2 Lockpicking - 2 Medicine - 2 Rifles - 2 Handguns - 2 Explosives - 2 Low-tech weapons - 2 I'm upgrading as needed, but I've been wanting to improve some of my combat skills for a while. I also feel that I might have missed some augmentations - I've found only one in the game so far, and it's a strength boost which allows JC to perform the superhuman feat of lifting slightly-larger-than-average cardboard boxes. Even though the skill descriptions say that getting to "Trained" in the lockpicking and electronics skills "slightly" increases your efficiency, a boost to efficiency of 250% in each really is significant, especially when you're escaping the building through the basement after the satellite dish bit. I had amassed fifteen multitools by then, and without upgrading electronics just before going through that section, I think I would have used all of them. The game seems to have a remarkable ability to drag me back in every time I think I'm fed up of it. I didn't think I was enjoying it much, and ended one session when I realized I couldn't be bothered walking all the way down the Hell's Kitchen tunnel just to see what was around there - but once I did, the game suddenly got very interesting again. I was particularly impressed that you were offered so much choice in the escape sequence - and (after consulting an FAQ to see if what I did was expected) how much you can influence the rest of the game by your actions there. Given that, it would seem to deserve multiple plays through... though I don't know if I have the time! --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
I also feel that I might have missed some augmentations - I've found only one in the game so far, and it's a strength boost which allows JC to perform the superhuman feat of lifting slightly-larger-than-average cardboard boxes. Yeah, those things are a pain to find, I think I've found maybe 4 or 5 when I was at the part you were at. Thankfully the game has a bunch of easy to find augs in Hong Kong. I haven't had a chance to play much these last few days, I'm still stuck around the same area as I was when I made my last post. |
There are a few harder to find ones but quite a few are thrown right at you. Jamie's office after Hell's Kitchen and the MJ12 complex are two that are impossible to miss. The upgrade canisters tend to be more hidden than the various augs themselves. You seem to have somehow missed the Legs and Subdermal canisters. Did you visit Jamie's office before leaving? You might still be able to get them, but I'm not sure. They're located later in the game as well I think. --- My Backloggery: http://backloggery.com/master_yogurt Classicgaming Steam Community: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Board204 |
From: The cranky hermit | Posted: 3/5/2011 1:07:21 PM | #059 Assault shotgun loaded with sabot rounds can be very effective against smaller robots. The Sawed-off Shotgun has better damage per shot, and in DX, that's a lot more important than damage per second. From: Master Yogurt | Posted: 3/3/2011 12:02:41 AM | #047 I've noticed several weird things with Shifter. I tend to get absurd amounts of ammunition, mainly, finding 500 or more assault rifle bullets on bodies, etc. That's actually a relatively minor bug; you're not finding absurd amounts of ammo, the game is showing your total count for that ammo type instead of how much you found. It doesn't do it with every ammo type, though, so your confusion is understandable. I went with the electrostatic discharge power they added instead of increased strength - though strength is incredibly useful - but I'm not convinced that smashing bots with a crowbar is exactly a good idea. It depends on the bot type and your augmentation set. The tracked Security Bots can turn too quickly for you to be able to circle around them to avoid getting shot, so that's a bad idea. The bipedal Security Bots can be circled around with Speed Enhancement, and the bipedal Military Bots can be circled around unaugmented. You can also use Electrostatic Discharge to disable cameras, turrets, and laser emitters. --- Heinrich von Helsignard: "Are we not men of science?" Atomic Robo: "I'm a robot and you're a brain in a jar. Is this a trick question?" |
Im now in the Paris catacombs and I'm having a blast. The Sword is now my current favorite weapon, I like to use it while having my speed aug on and rampage threw MJ-12 troops. |
I finished the game last night, got all 3 ending. I was kinda hoping there would be more to them but the game itself was excellent. How is the second game? Who plans on picking up the third game? |
The second game is awful. I have little hope for the third one - maybe it will be better than the second, but I have no faith in the mainstream player base's ability to appreciate the kind of depth that made Deus Ex what it is. I'm sure Eidos doesn't either, and will pander to the BioShock crowd accordingly. --- http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/ Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more! |
I haven't played the second game (refuses to work on my computer) but most people I've asked about it sum it up thusly: "On its own, it's a pretty good game. But as a sequel to Deus Ex, it sucks." --- Sabrus Cabrus Sebrus Bass |
Hey TC, All the games I nominated can be found on Gog.com. Beneath a Steel Sky can be found for free on various sites. |
Thanks - I'll bear those in mind. I'm going to do a much smaller independent game next, one of my original suggestions on the starter topic that can be completed in a few hours. I feel sort of bad for not participating in this one much recently, though I've had other things on my mind (the usual things that happen when someone starts a grand project of topics that they promise to actually contribute to). I'm now at the point where you don't have any weapons, which makes you feel suddenly much more vulnerable - even with the benefit of being able to fight back for most of the game, the scarcity of ammunition gave me almost a survival horror kind of feeling (without the 'horror' bit - survival sci-fi?) As I keep mentioning, it's gone back and forth for me a lot - I think I must have played about ten hours of it in total, though my actual time on the save is less than half of that thanks to deaths and reloads. I appreciate the branching nature of your abilities and how you can affect the storyline - to an extent I hadn't imagined when I first started - but I still find the gameplay rather clumsy in certain areas (like the guards'... odd and inconsistent behaviour). I'm sure that this is mostly due to its age, as it's difficult to remember that it came out ten years ago and how much things might have evolved since then - and that I don't usually tend to enjoy first-person shooters that fall below the "utterly ridiculous" level of unrealism. Though it did sort of give me a pang of anxiety that I might actually only like games that I grew up with, as much as I think I preferred 'older' games in general. --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |
I'm sure that this is mostly due to its age, as it's difficult to remember that it came out ten years ago and how much things might have evolved since then I think it has very little to do with the age. No game in the past ten years has even attempted to come close to Deus Ex's level of depth. As such, no game since has had to tackle the problem of making guard AI capable of responding to such a wide variety of player actions, and you can't really say any game has done it better. Half-Life, for instance, predates Deus Ex by two years, and its AI is consistently competent (HL: Source notwithstanding). But it seldom had to deal with emergent gameplay scenarios, while in Deus Ex you are guaranteed to have a story to tell about how you beat a particular mission that nobody has ever heard before. In fact, I'd say that good stealth AI is something no game has ever gotten right. The most consistent behavior I've ever seen would be the original MGS and MGS2, in which the guards are consistently rock stupid, and you could probably re-create their entire routines in BASIC just through observation. I also have to imagine that Deus Ex (or any game with stealth elements) would be murderously difficult if the AI always responded to stimulii appropriately, and I don't know if harder difficulty levels have any effect on that. I've never actually played on anything other than medium. I don't usually tend to enjoy first-person shooters that fall below the "utterly ridiculous" level of unrealism. Though it did sort of give me a pang of anxiety that I might actually only like games that I grew up with, as much as I think I preferred 'older' games in general. Have you played Max Payne? MDK? No One Lives Forever? Serious Sam? Those come to mind as "utterly ridiculous" shooters from around the same time as Deus Ex, all of which are available on Steam or GOG. --- http://thecrankyhermit.wikispaces.com/ Year-by-year analysis of the finest gaming has to offer, and (eventually) more! |
It's interesting that you should bring up the first Metal Gear Solid, actually, because that has actually remained my favourite stealth game - the genome soldiers' biological enhancements apparently amount to the loss of peripheral vision, short-term memory and most brain cells. Importantly, though, they were fun to toy with - you could knock on a wall and then hide round the corner and watch their bemusement, or creep around in a cardboard box behind them. Try that with the later MGS games and you'll most likely be hunted down quite efficiently when they radio in for help. Does that mean that I'm now admitting that the slightly dimwitted nature of the guards in Deus Ex is a good thing? I suppose it does, actually. Despite their odd guarding tactics, I still always feel vulnerable, though - it feels like being spotted is a mistake that's going to be difficult to recover from, no matter what skills you have. --- http://albion.bandcamp.com My music, or: power metal trapped in an Amiga http://davidn.livejournal.com My journal, or: British and trapped in America |