Despite what you might be tempted to think, I know a lot of people on FA who seem like perfectly normal functioning members of society. But I do admit that there are also a large number of people who could be politely described as "unstable". And impolitely described as "desk-chewingly insane". One such specimen messaged me after going on a long trawl through my submitted music, having picked up on some religious overtones during one period a few years ago and asking if I was a Christian. I replied that I would probably describe myself as such, but reassured him that I wasn't one of the mad ones.

Unfortunately it turned out that he was - I'm really not sure why he thought that I was part of the sort of literalist fanaticism that his mindset seems to involve, because I would have liked to think that my music at that time described him as part of the problem. Nevertheless, he eventually found one of my IM addresses and took the opportunity to whine to me about the various problems in his life, foremost of which was a homosexual relationship that he had broken off because his equally insane older sister told him it was wrong. This is the latest conversation I had with him, and I think it's also fair to say that it's the last.

I haven't posted an IM conversation saga for a number of years now, having somehow avoided them for a long time. I thought that this one was funny at first, but in many ways it's just horribly distressing. The log opens with things you'd probably be better off not knowing right from the start, but gets much more interesting close to the end.

(12:29:52) Kevin: OMG! Thank God you're online. I just felt like talking to you.
(12:33:33) Kevin: *gulps* I want to say that I was laying on the couch after I woke up and my dog was licking me and I liked it...I think it turned me on and I didn't like lustful feel. *sigh* I feel I've been defiled by that guy and he's got me still having thoughs feeling and I feel like a pervert. I heard that when you have sex with an animal it changes it, like it makes it feel things it hasn't before...
(12:34:49) Kevin: I think after being with that guy I've been pervertedified and now I"m more into my pervertedness.
(12:36:03) Kevin: *sighs* *gulps* I don't want to feel like a lustful person. I'm a Christain, I shouldn't be like this.
(12:37:05) MSN: I don't think that it was him. You are what you are.
(12:38:04) MSN: It's up to you to know what's wrong and right, to control yourself.

That started off well, didn't it? I don't know how I managed to become psychiatrist for this sort of issue, I have absolutely no idea what to say about that. All I could do was react to his natural mechanism to find anyone to blame but himself.

(12:39:44) Kevin: *sigh* You're right. I'm blaming it on him. I've done this to myself. But damn it. I'm so mad at myself for doing those lustful things in the past and dwelling on it and I think It's like I'm used to being like this.
(12:41:10) Kevin: I feel I've turned myself into a sexual monster.
(12:44:10) Kevin: *sigh* It would probably bother you for me to ask you, but have you had a time when lustful?

Probably most of the time, according to any philosophy of yours, Captain Tactful.

(13:14:27) Kevin: Well I took your advice and talked to one of my non-Christian that is Catholic and I had asked her if she believed in the concept that Jesus was a sin sacrifice, and she said yes. It made me greatly happy. I was glad she was a believer, even though I'm guessing she doesn't believe the same aspects as me. I just think even if she doens't believe everything I do she respects my beliefs and also..
(13:15:39) MSN: Is Catholic considered non-Christian where you are?

This wasn't a challenge, this was something I genuinely didn't understand. I know that there's a distinction between Catholic and Roman Catholic, though I'm not sure of the details, but isn't Catholicism a fairly large and vital part of Christianity as a whole? I'd never heard of any of the rest of the things that he's describing either - I know that Mary is a bit more recognized in it, but not to the extent that he's describing. I'm forced to guess that he just doesn't know what he's talking about.

(13:17:39) Kevin: doesn't give me problems. IDK what Catholics believe that's different from Christains, I've heard that Catholics are very simliar to Christians in only one thing is different about them and it's not much, instead of praying to God/Jesus they pray to Mary because they think she's got the upper hand as Jesus's mother.
(13:18:34) Kevin: But IDK there might be more to it than that.
(13:20:42) Kevin: Hmm...I'm under the impression that maybe...she's not Catholic and she's confused about her beliefs.
(13:23:41) Kevin: IDK it's just a feeling. Cause for some reason I don't want to believe that she's Catholic and believes that aspect of Christ being the sin sacrifice, I'm convinced she's acutally Christian.
(13:24:54) MSN: I haven't heard anything about Catholics putting Mary above anyone... nevertheless, you shouldn't concern yourself so much with what other people believe and what to call them because of it.
(13:26:23) Kevin: She told me when she talked to her Atheist boyfriend about her beliefs and he really hurt her and he made her doubt her beliefs and she cried. I guess I can understand her, I've been there. When I was with that guy he made me doubt my beliefs and I didn't like it.
(13:28:11) Kevin: That's the reason I don't want to be with non-Christian, like it says in the bible, if you're around the wrong crowd for too long, they'll effect you, no matter how strong you are.

If you can't handle anyone presenting different beliefs from you, then I'm afraid that that would indicate that your beliefs aren't really very strong. This was to come up again a bit later on. Additionally, this mindset of deciding what people are based on your own narrowminded view really is awful, as is the idea to limit yourself to communication with people who are exactly the same as you. Though in the end it might be an advantage if they only ever interacted with each other, because they could be boxed up somewhere and left to get on themselves. Alabama would do.

(13:29:09) MSN: But what makes you think that they're the 'wrong' crowd? If they directly attacked your beliefs then that's wrong, but making you question them, and to think about them... that can only be good for you.
(13:30:33) Kevin: Are you familiar with the verses about the jews being with non-believers and that they were hanging around them and eventually started worshiping idols. I don't want that to happen to me. I don't want them to influence me.
(13:32:04) Kevin: I don't think it's possible to be with a non-believer and not have conflict with beliefs. I think eventually it'll come up and it'll cause problems.

Well, in that case, here's a perfect chance to spring a surprise.

(13:32:28) MSN: Would you be immensely surprised if I said my wife's Jewish?
(13:33:09) Kevin: *sigh* I should have seen that coming. Yes I'm surpised.
(13:33:32) MSN: :) There was no way for you to know!
(13:34:01) Kevin: Well that explains alot.
(13:34:05) MSN: It doesn't come between us - we just... learn about each other, and we haven't had any conflict or any attempt to belittle or go against the beliefs of the other.

Because we have the tremendous advantage of not being completely insane, that's why. "Should have seen that coming" is a bit of a worrying phrase. Why did he say that? You'll see.

(13:35:17) Kevin: Hmm...well you've sure proved me wrong. *sigh* I'm just scared I'll be tempted by non-believers. I don't want to fall in my pitiful pit again.
(13:37:05) MSN: Stay true to yourself, but open your mind to the world around you, and don't be afraid to change, or learn. That's not temptation, that's just altering your mindset because of experience.
(13:40:54) Kevin: Gosh. You keep astonishing me with your wisdom. When I mentioned to my older sister about you on Fur Affinity she told me I shouldn't hang out with you, she felt you were a weak Christian, boy was she ever wrong! You're very strong with your beliefs and you astonish me every while.
(13:42:24) MSN: Our beliefs disagree in many ways, but I am strong in mine :) I think, from what you've said in the past, that she would probably see me as someone who leads others into temptation because of having different beliefs.

He uses the phrase "pitiful pit" quite a lot. I'm not sure if it's a term that comes from Christianity itself - I've certainly never heard it before. To me it sounds like a bit of a tautology, something that we avoid by resisting tempting temptation and our depraved depravity. He seems impressed with my Disneyfied wisdom here, but that same "wisdom" was what was to cause a disaster a little later on.

(13:48:27) Kevin: Well I do believe what he was talking about when he told his stories about him seeing an Angel that had a coat on and a briefcase that was leaving a scene of an accident. And he told us that when he was on the highway he was being followed by someone in a vechile and he was conveinced it was a Demon and when it had got to the side of him our friend had flipped him off and it didn't flinch.
(13:49:24) Kevin: The so called demon was dressed in black and had sun glasses on.

If nothing else, you've got to admire his evidence.

(14:16:08) Kevin: Hmm...even though I do believe the idea that Angels and Demons present themselves, when he was talking about those things It was like I had been open to a new world I was unware of, and it fasnated me. I just think it could be exciting to have experiences like that. I just feel like some people are so ingorant to their sorroundings and if they only open up their mind to Christianity it is alot..
(14:16:49) Kevin: more interesting and fun than the way they normally live.
(14:19:29) Kevin: I used to think of Christianity as a boring thing and just trying to convert people, and now that I have this new knowledge of the world we live it, I find it more enjoyable.

I've had to remove quite a lot here, where he suddenly went off on anything to do with angels, demons, dreams, more details than you would ever want to know about his dogs, and how life was so hard for him because of having Asperger's Syndrome - a condition that apparently makes you bore everyone to death. I know that this condition is genuine in some people, but I've seen the card used so often as nothing more than an uninvited excuse that it's now difficult to take it seriously. In honestly I can't help but feel extremely sorry for anyone who really does have a problem with it, now that it's seen as a catch-all excuse for being a bit of a moron.

(14:41:39) Kevin: And you're right, I shouldn't judge non-believers, I find that I've been doing that alot lately, they're people too. I can have just as much fun with them as with a Chritainj, it can be fun to learn from them.

What made him particulaly difficult to talk to was his rapidly altering point of view - he could have one idea and then be told another and then act as if that had been his view all along. A disadvantage of leaving your brain on autopilot through life.

(15:17:46) Kevin: Yeah me too. Sometimes my older sister when she's looking for him she talks out loud about her worry of him being abducted and being...she didn't continue on, she couldn't bare to think about that happening to her dog, she does love him very much and I can tell when she comes over and sees him.
(15:21:49) Kevin: So...what are you doing. I couldn't find anything else to talk about. Lol.
(15:22:47) MSN: I'm at work, technically - I'm working from home today.
(15:23:32) Kevin: Hmm...you make time for making music and having a job?

I'm not sure what he really meant by that. They're not exactly two extremely difficult things to juggle.

(17:45:52) Kevin: I felt so good about me being able to chat with a person like you, that I wanted to tell my dad. I called my dad, he's on his way from Arkansas to Texas and it's a 10 hour trek that requires his attention on the road, especailly since he'll be awake for 10 hours. But I told him about you and he was worried that you were a person like the guy that he saw as the sexual predator and I assured....
(17:49:07) Kevin: him that you weren't and you were Christian, I told him that you were strong with your beliefs, but when I told him about you being married to a Jewish wife, he told me that he didn't agree with that, because it says in the bible that Christian should be pure when it comes to your marriage relationship you should have a Christian partner, I told him why you felt it was good to be married to her...
(17:50:17) Kevin: but he returned that it's in the bible and I'm more willing to believe the bible over what a guy says.
(17:52:10) MSN: The Bible is what a guy says... two millenniums ago.

This is definitely where I went too fast too soon. In an attempt to talk to him about different interpretations of this ancient and frequently misunderstood set of documents, I failed to open his mind and sped right down the path to shoving a stick of dynamite in it instead.

(17:53:16) Kevin: But also I was trying to introduce him to the concept of being a furry, at first he told me, he didn't feel that was Chirstian, but I told him, this lifestyle means a lot to me, I can't see myself leaving it, and I was trying to reassure him that I wans't doing anything lustful with this lifestyle, he told me he wanted to look up the site I go to, and he wanted to chat with you.
(17:53:50) Kevin: Um...I'm not understanding what you said.
(17:55:02) MSN: If he wants to chat with me you can give him my IM address - though I anticipate it being quite difficult to explain the lifestyle to someone who is entirely new to it...!

Right, first of all, I made a mistake here - it's not a "lifestyle", it's an interest or a fandom or whatever you want to call it, but it's something that should be mostly left at your computer, and everyone who I've become friends with through it knows that. As for the proposal... what can I say? I was interested in getting to speak with someone a bit more mature (and hopefully wiser, as he had said before that even though his father's a minister he didn't see his son's homosexual relationship as a problem) about all this, even though I was naturally a bit hesitant of the idea of talking to either of the people capable of producing him.

(17:56:50) Kevin: *sigh* Yes I know. But even if he doesn't understand it, I'm sure he'll accept me as his son and not think any less of me.
(17:57:04) MSN: I mean... actually I'll change the explanation - I am certain, somewhere in the Bible, that it says something that either implies or outright says something that goes directly against the furry fandom. But you know that you're not doing anything wrong with it, and that it means a lot to you, and that there isn't a reason for you to give it up.
(17:58:33) Kevin: Hmm...I'm intereseted, tell me more about this topic of the bible.
(18:00:40) Kevin: *sigh* But if it does say things that go against, this lifestyle, then I would feel it better not to be involved in it. Of course I won't like it, but I feel I would be doing the right thing.
(18:01:49) MSN: http://ottercomics.virtualhermit.net/monastery/sermons/christian_and_furry.htm - This has some discussion on it. Again I don't think I agree with all of it, but... there it is.

"This topic of the bible"! I don't think they anticipated anything like this. I was as surprised that that page existed as you are, to be frank - actually reading it now I see some fairly large problems with it from my own point of view, but it was something to throw at him at the time.

(18:02:27) Kevin: You don't honestly have the mindset of doubting the bible? I don
(18:03:35) Kevin: I don't understand that. You as good a Christain you are, if you doubt the bible, then that's not being a Christian.

As good or bad an anything as I am, if you have the capability to question things and not blindly follow them, then that's having a brain. There's no going back now, let's try something that I remembered from The West Wing.

(18:05:48) MSN: I'm afraid that there are a lot of things in it, particularly around the books of laws in the old testament like Leviticus, that we really don't recognize, today. Are you wearing clothing made out of more than one type of material just now, for example? That's outlawed in 19:19 - http://bible.cc/leviticus/19-19.htm
(18:06:28) Kevin: The bible is what gives Christains power and knowledge of our beliefs, and when you doubt it, that's twisted. I don't care what your reason for it is.
(18:09:26) MSN: I wouldn't call it doubt... it's more a fact that there are parts of it that we don't recognize, now - even the most strict Christians. A lot of it is composed of advice that would have been essential at that time - a few passages before that, there's a part on burning meat sacrifices instead of eating them if they're more than three days old. Sensible then, because they would probably die from eating three-day-old meat!

A condition I'm all too familiar with myself.

(18:11:35) Kevin: *sigh* You're missing my point! You're just analizing the bible and scorinizing to see if they're flaws in it! I don't feel that's right!
(18:12:27) Kevin: You're a Christian for God's sake! You should know better than that!

I don't need to scorinize anything, that's exactly the kind of irony that's a perfect demonstration of what I'm saying here. Once again, there's that theme of accepting everything that's been translated and retranslated several hundred times, and ignoring the bits that might cause problems... can I spell this out to him?

(18:13:35) MSN: However, that does raise a question - you've said that you can't imagine doubting the bible, or presumably anything in it - and according to it we're meant to follow it to the letter. One of the commandments is to not take God's name in vain, or some phrasing like that, so terms like "for God's sake" are forbidden by it as well!
(18:14:44) Kevin: I'm not mad at you, more so trying to help you understand that what you're doing is wrong. *sigh* *grumbles* *smacks self in the face* Are you even listening to me!
(18:16:05) MSN: Absolutely. Those parts that I just mentioned weren't flaws in it, they were very good advice at the time. All I'm saying is that we're not following the bible to the letter - you or me, none of us do.
(18:18:14) Kevin: Look! I don't like you judging the bible! That's not what Christians should do! It's there to help us! And I don't like what I'm hearin. I don't think this is getting anyway. I think this is going to run straight into the ground and crash hard.

Entrenching itself within a pitiful pit while it's at it.

(18:19:58) Kevin: I feel like crying right now. I feel like my only Christian friend has betrayed me.
(18:20:52) MSN: Tell me about your views of the bible.

I'd given him too difficult a logical conflict far too early. As he saw all this as judging the text itself rather than commenting on how we might not necessarily follow all of it, I invited some commentary back from him. And, well, I've got to say that he delivered more than I was expecting.

(18:23:44) Kevin: Thank you. At least you want to listen now, I don't feel you should doubt Christianity, that's when you're go into a pitiful pit. *sigh* I don't even want to say this to you cause I'm afraid it'll anger you and you'll won't like me anymore, but I feel I should do it, *gulps* I don't think you should be married with your wife. For all I know she may be the reason why you're having these feelings
(18:25:37) Kevin: I'm not saying this to anger you, cause that would be the last thing I would want to do, I'm telling you this, because of your sake as a Chirstian, it's not healty toward your walk with Chirst.

At this point I have to wonder how he can't see the possible reason for the problem he has keeping friends. Talking to non-believers can be "fun"... unless they dare to start talking about what they think! I can't say I'd been in this position before, so the only thing to really do was ask him to elaborate while trying to assure him that I was listening to everything he said, even if I was then discarding it immediately.

(18:26:44) MSN: Now, are you saying that because it says in the bible that you shouldn't marry into mixed religion, or for other reasons?
(18:27:39) Kevin: I say this because it's in the bible, and as such the bible was given to us to help us throughout our life, it's not a hinderance, it's a tool.
(18:28:39) MSN: And I promise you, I do listen to you - all I'm saying with the above is that it's important to keep an open mind and realize the way we live is... different.
(18:30:16) Kevin: Please understand. I'm telling you these things, because I care about you, not because I feel it's because of my beliefs. I think what a lot of people don't understand about the bible is it's not there to tell us how to live our lives because it's something we have to do, it tells us these things because it's best for us.

Let's try to get that point across again. There are pieces - some immediately surrounding that passage that he's talking about - that he would consider perfectly all right. Why select one part in particular that needs to be upheld, while others don't? Am I making this a difficult concept to grasp?

(18:30:51) MSN: My point was - and this isn't an analysis of the bible and I'm not telling you outright that any of it is wrong, more a commentary on how we live - that there are parts of it that we no longer follow, parts that are in there because they were the best for people at the time. Given that, how do we choose what we pay attention to?
(18:32:42) Kevin: I don't care what you have to say about the bible. All I'll find confort in is if I knew that you weren't with that woman anymore, I feel she's perverting your mind and make you believe things that don't agree with the bible.

Presumably because it couldn't be my fault because I'm a Christian, so it's the evil influence of anything outside that would be making me think like this. Now that I read this over again I'm really quite appalled.

(18:34:03) Kevin: That's what was going on with me and that guy, he was perverting my mind and making me lustful.
(18:34:07) MSN: Why do you feel it's her? I haven't even mentioned her in this entire exchange.
(18:36:20) Kevin: Because like I said before, I think your partner has a big influence on you. That;'s what was going on with me and that guy, he was perverting my mind and having me be lustful. I am very convienced that it's her, because I can't see anything else that would explain you talking the way you do.

I can - the use of the large thing between my ears. At the time I actually found all this quite funny, but looking back on it again, it's really quite awful and disturbing.

(18:38:08) Kevin: Look! I'm going to try and make myself perfectly clear, that I don't like your wife! She's not there for you to help you, she's a hinderance!
(18:38:37) MSN: :) I assure you, my mind is quite strong - I'm fairly sure that I've thought like this since before we even met each other.
(18:39:07) Kevin: If you can't see that, than you're very naive, and I probably shouldn't be talking to you anymore!
(18:40:00) Kevin: You'll probably just pervert my mind too!
(18:40:03) MSN: However, I believe this is why you've encountered such problems trying to meet with other people on FA, as you said... in your projection of beliefs on to other people you're trying to get them to change their lives. I mean, saying you shouldn't be married to someone, whether you think it's for their own good or not... that's pretty intrusive.
(18:41:38) MSN: "pervert", or "open"... it's your choice. I'm not saying that you have to listen to me, just telling you what I believe and how I see the world.
(18:43:43) Kevin: *starts to burst out crying* I didn't want it to come to this, but I don't want to talk to you anymore. I seen for what you really are. Some twisted and perverted thing you call Christianity. I don't like this anymore. Good bye. *lowers head* I can't understand why this keeps happening to me! I get close to someone and I have to leave them because it's not right! *weeps like a baby*

I could tell you, if you like.

(18:46:17) Kevin: Before I go, I don't want to do this to you, but I just hate that we aren't going to work out as friends. So good bye.
(18:46:20) MSN: You have to leave them because they don't conform to your own very rigid beliefs, and that you don't seem to be capable of accepting another's points of view.
(18:46:57) MSN: I hope that you find some sort of comfort and place for you, eventually, whatever it is you decide to do.

As long as it doesn't involve communicating with other people much.

(18:47:33) Kevin: Oh and btw. Don't ever talk to me anymore, I don't want the guilt to well up inside of me that I did this to you.

At that point it was clear that nothing I said was going to convince him otherwise, so all I could do was free him of the unspeakable perversions that non-Christians brought to his life and leave him to go back to having sex with his dog.

He had me on his page under "My Christian recruits" until recently, but thankfully he's since removed it. Unfortunately, like everyone else who leaves the site forever, he came back after about eight hours and looks like he's now clinging on to other people one by one - maybe I should just have said it was an abomination unto everything when I had the chance and saved everyone else a whole lot of trouble.

Update: I wasn't going to actually link to him, but when his page is now this much better, I'm forced to abandon any morals I may have had.